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 Important rules that we've missed in the past

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Rincewind
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PostSubject: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:51 am

1. Annihilator, and any other ability that mentions a defending player, only applies to one defending player in 2HG.

2. If a player dies and has several Oblivion Rings, the triggers returning the removed permanents to play never go off, so nobody gets their stuff back.

3. If you bounce a creature blocking a creature with trample, then you take full trample damage.

4. Creatures who "can block as if they have flying" now have Reach instead. Silhana Ledgewalker and similar creatures cannot be blocked by creatures with Reach. The creature HAS to have flying to be able to block. (changed from pre-10th)

5. Creatures with Reach can now block a flying creature enchanted with Dust Corona, since they can block creature with flying, and they don't have flying. (changed from pre-10th)

6. If a spell was kicked and then copied, the copy is also kicked.

7. You cannot swerve a spell to target itself.

8. When you play a spell without paying its mana cost, you can choose to pay any extra costs such as kicker. The "without paying its mana cost" only applies to the cost on the top corner of the card.

9. Mana empties at end of both phases and steps. Therefore mana won't last between steps in combat. (changed from pre-10th)

10. When everything is destroyed at the same time, they trigger all effects. (i.e. Wrath of God + Death Eater dude will gain you 1 life for each other thing that dies)

11. You can't respond to dredging

12. If you would draw two cards, and choose to dredge the first, you have the option of dredging the dredged cards for the second draw.

13. After a spell resolves (from not being countered) the person who plays it ges a chance to play another spell before anyone else can.


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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:19 am

14. Cards that involve searching for cards with specific characteristics - You can "fail to find" all the required cards, and there is nothing stopping you from picking less than 4 cards from gifts ungiven, for instance. On the other hand, cards that don't specify anything in particular about the cards to search for (like demonic tutor) are different and you have to find a card.

15. You can announce your intention to play a spell and put it on the stack before you physically tap the lands to pay for it. (since 6th ed)

16. If you copy an arcane with spells spliced onto it, you get the spliced effects too

17. If you can't remember the exact name of a card or creature type, you can describe it to your opponents instead. For instance, when playing Cranial Extraction, if you can't remember the exact name of the card you wish to target, you may describe the card instead. This applies to competitive games as well as casual, although you do have to leave no doubt as to what the card is in order for it to be allowed. Also, you have to name a card that exists, so if you name a card and get it slightly wrong, then assume you got it right.

18. Gifts given is banned in ALL formats, and is treated like an Un-card by the rules - Kevin won't like this one

19. Declaring blockers does not use the stack. Once one blocker has been declared, nobody else can do anything until the defending player has finished declaring blockers.


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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:30 am

20. If someone who has gained control of your stuff dies, you will get it back, with a few exceptions like Bribery.

21. Effects that change P/T work before ones that modify. So Giant Growth will always pump a Snakeformed creature, even if the creature was snakeformed afterwards.

22. If you play Copy Enchantment targetting an Aura, the copied aura can be attached to a creature with shroud. (trust me, this one will be relevant soon)
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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:17 am

23. Things which say "at end of turn" can be used during the end of someone elses turn in order for them to carry over into the next turn. "until end of turn" cards cannot be used in this way.

24. Effects on a card with entwine happen one after another.

25. In 2HG, anything that counts a players life total counts the team's life total, not half of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:38 am

26. If you screw up and play a spell by mistake, then if the spell can't be played due to mana shortage or lack of legal targets, you get to rewind. If there are legal targets and you are able to afford the mana, then you have to continue and choose a different target.

27. When playing a spell, you are required to make sure that all other players are aware that you are playing it.

28. If you're asked to "choose" instead of "target", you do this after the spell resolves. Therefore, once you have chosen someone to Cranially Extract, its too late for them to counter it. They have to counter it before you make the choice.

29. While using mana abilities to pay for a spell you just played, nobody has priority, not even you. So if a creature goes down to 0 toughness or you go down to 0 lie while paying mana for the spell, thats all fine and dandy until you've finished paying for the spell. Also, if you play a spell with convoke, nobody can tap your creatures out before you get the chance to convoke.

30. Drawing too many cards at the beginning of the game is a forced mulligan (the mulligan isn't free either)

31. Players must choose who starts before drawing their hands.

32. All cards in a deck must have card sleeves that are the same, or none at all. They must all be in similar condition and not easily distinguishable.
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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:40 am

....so i must take out my cool cards? eg myr incubator?

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:50 am

I'm sure we can arrange something Smile

Problem is, that if we stop Max from getting away with it, then I'm afraid you'll have to do something too. I can always give you 60 slips with a black back or something.
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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:00 am

Don't worry. I unslipped all my partially slipped decks Smile

Some of those are interesting enough to build decks around...
...by the way, a swerved spell can still target spells above it, it'll just fizzle later on...

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:10 am

Most of them are common sense, but there are a few odd ones.
I thought they should be listed here because quite often we'll be arguing about one of these for a while, when really we should be having fun instead Smile

#25 is one which I quite like the sound of Twisted Evil

Also #31, #27 and #26 are ones I think we should try to follow more.

#15 and #17 are common courtesy.

I don't know what we're doing about #18, since technically a couple of other cards we play are restricted and/or banned in some formats (Balance and Skullclamp spring to mind). Are we playing Vintage, Legacy, or is it anything goes as long as its non Un? Or are we going to play anything that is legal in Legacy or Vintage, and ignore the restricted list?
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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:16 am

I think we should come up with a restricted list of our own. That would be a compromise between paranoid banned (eg. artifact lands) and justified banned (eg. balance, skullclamp).

I don't see Chris cooperating on the cranial extraction or invalid spell target ones...

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:23 am

Could you try to clarify the Pentarch Ward thing? I maintain my case, but a meticulous scan of Google gives no results, so the answer's obvious and somebody's a bloody fool...

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:24 am

Well the Cranial Extraction one is fair enough, although I've only once actually got the name wrong (which is against the rules since i have to name a card that exists)

Rewinds is tough... We're a casual group, so some rewinds are fine. But I think we need to focus on getting it right the first time instead of needing a rewind.
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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:25 am

I wasn't able to find anything on it, but I'm fairly certain that they do both fall off. I'll ask a judge at the launch party this friday.
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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:29 am

Surely the O-rings 'leave play' when their owner exits the game?
That is the case with all there other cards????

Can you explain that more cleary santa ?
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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:18 pm

The controller dies, and the permanents don't leave play-they simply cease to exist. Also, they can't trigger as they instantly do so, and are out of the game before they can.

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:08 am

I have just reviewed the rules on trample and deathtouch:

* If an attacking creature with deathtouch and trample becomes blocked, the attacking creature first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. However, since the creature has deathtouch, assigning even 1 damage to a creature is considered to be lethal damage.

Example: Yavimaya Wurm (a 6/4 creature with trample) is equipped with Gorgon Flail (an Equipment that grants the equipped creature +1/+1 and deathtouch). It attacks a player and is blocked by Siege Mastodon (a 3/5 creature). Yavimaya Wurm must assign at least 1 damage to the Mastodon. Its remaining damage may be assigned as its controller chooses between the Mastodon and the defending player. Notably, the Wurm may assign 1 damage to the Mastodon and 6 damage to the defending player. After that damage is dealt to the Mastodon, the Mastodon will be destroyed.

* If a creature with deathtouch and another creature both block or are blocked by a creature, the other creature may take into account the fact that any combat damage dealt by a creature with deathtouch is considered to be lethal damage.

Example: An attacking Acidic Slime (a 2/2 creature with deathtouch) and an attacking Yavimaya Wurm (a 6/4 creature with trample) are both blocked by a Palace Guard (a 1/4 creature that can block any number of creatures). The Slime must assign its 2 damage to the Guard. Since the Guard is being assigned lethal damage, the Wurm's 6 damage may be assigned as its controller chooses between the Guard and the defending player. Notably, the Wurm may assign all 6 damage to the defending player. It doesn't matter which creature's damage is assigned first, as long as the final damage assignment follows all the applicable parameters.

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:46 am

An extension on rule 3.1 concerning X-cost spells: X is only zero as long as it remains undeclared. Say, for example, you have an X/X creature, X is zero as long as it's not in play. Through the same logic, a spell with X is its cost only has X as zero until the point where you declare and pay X. At any point after this, you can copy that spell, as well as its value of X.

EXAMPLE:
You play a Reality Spasm, choosing X as two. You copy the Spasm twice with an Echo Mage; you now have two copies, each with X=2, so you untap three lands and the mage, netting one mana in the process. The echo mage can now copy the original again, etc. Until you have infinite mana and infinite untap/tap capabilities.

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:07 am

santa told me the opposite on Sunday.
When I wanted to copy a spell with Twincast which had X in its cost.
He said the copy would have X=0.

Who is correct?
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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:07 am

It varies depending on the exact wording of the card in question.

Old spell copying cards and new spell copying cards have subtly different wording, so they both act differently.

In this case, I was wrong, as the errata of Twincast shows:

10/1/2009: If the spell Twincast copies has an X whose value was determined as it was cast (like Earthquake does), the copy has the same value of X.

Its different for all the older spell copying cards, which say that you play the copy without paying its mana cost.
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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:50 pm

Correct - copying a spell implies cloning its instance on the stack, and keeps all the variables such as targets the same, which is why they specifically mention redirecting the targets as well.

Copying a spell and playing the copy without its mana cost copies the "template" or original card, and thus resets its properties, including X. And as you play it without paying tis mana cost, X is zero.

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:57 am

Just downloaded the MTG 'comprehensive' rules, a 169-page PDF file...

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:09 am

Some important multiplayer rules:

If multiple players would make choices and/or take actions at the same time, the active player (the player whose turn it is) makes any choices required, then the next player in turn order (usually the player seated to the active player’s left) makes any choices required, followed by the remaining nonactive players in turn order. Then the actions happen simultaneously.

If an effect puts two or more objects on the stack at the same time, those controlled by the active player are put on lowest, followed by each other player’s objects in APNAP order.

A player can concede the game at any time. A player who concedes leaves the game immediately. He or she loses the game.

In a multiplayer game using the limited range of influence option, an effect that states that a player wins the game instead causes all of that player’s opponents within his or her range of influence to lose the game.

In a multiplayer game using the limited range of influence option, the effect of a spell or ability that states that the game is a draw causes the game to be a draw for that spell or ability’s controller and all players within his or her range of influence. Only those players leave the game; the game continues for all other players.

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:12 am

106.1. Mana is the primary resource in the game. Players spend mana to pay costs, usually when casting spells and activating abilities.
106.1a There are five colors of mana: white, blue, black, red, and green.
106.1b There are six types of mana: white, blue, black, red, green, and colorless.

If an ability would produce one or more mana of an undefined type, it produces no mana instead.

Some spells or abilities that produce mana restrict how that mana can be spent, or have an additional effect that affects the spell or ability that mana is spent on. This doesn’t affect the mana’s type.

106.7. Some abilities produce mana based on the type of mana another permanent or permanents “could produce.” The type of mana a permanent could produce at any time includes any type of mana that an ability of that permanent would produce if the ability were to resolve at that time, taking into account any applicable replacement effects in any possible order. Ignore whether any costs of the ability could or could not be paid. If that permanent wouldn’t produce any mana under these conditions, or no type of mana can be defined this way, there’s no type of mana it could produce.

Example: Exotic Orchard has the ability “Tap Symbol: Add to your mana pool one mana of any color that a land an opponent controls could produce.” If your opponent controls no lands, activating Exotic Orchard’s mana ability will produce no mana. The same is true if you and your opponent each control no lands other than Exotic Orchards. However, if you control a Forest and an Exotic Orchard, and your opponent controls an Exotic Orchard, then each Exotic Orchard could produce Green Mana.

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:13 am

If a spell or activated ability has a mana cost, alternative cost, additional cost, and/or activation cost with an X Mana, [-X], or X in it, and the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell or ability, the controller of that spell or ability chooses and announces the value of X as part of casting the spell or activating the ability. (See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”) While a spell is on the stack, any X in its mana cost equals the announced value. While an activated ability is on the stack, any X in its activation cost equals the announced value.

Once a token is on the battlefield, changing its name doesn’t change its creature type, and vice versa.

A permanent’s status is its physical state. There are four status categories, each of which has two possible values: tapped/untapped, flipped/unflipped, face up/face down, and phased in/phased out. Each permanent always has one of these values for each of these categories.

A permanent retains its status until a spell, ability, or turn-based action changes it, even if that status is not relevant to it.

Example: Dimir Doppelganger says “{1}Blue ManaBlack Mana: Exile target creature card from a graveyard. Dimir Doppelganger becomes a copy of that card and gains this ability.” It becomes a copy of Jushi Apprentice, a flip card. Through use of Jushi Apprentice’s ability, this creature flips, making it a copy of Tomoya the Revealer with the Dimir Doppelganger ability. If this permanent then becomes a copy of Runeclaw Bear, it will retain its flipped status even though that has no relevance to Runeclaw Bear. If its copy ability is activated again, this time targeting a Nezumi Shortfang card (another flip card), this permanent’s flipped status means it will have the characteristics of Stabwhisker the Odious (the flipped version of Nezumi Shortfang) with the Dimir Doppelganger ability.

An effect that sets an object’s characteristic, or simply states a quality of that object, is different from an ability granted by an effect. When an object “gains” or “has” an ability, that ability can be removed by another effect. If an effect defines a characteristic of the object (“[permanent] is [characteristic value]”), it’s not granting an ability.

Example: Muraganda Petroglyphs reads, “Creatures with no abilities get +2/+2.” A Runeclaw Bear (a creature with no abilities) enchanted by an Aura that says “Enchanted creature has flying” would not get +2/+2. A Runeclaw Bear enchanted by an Aura that says “Enchanted creature is red” or “Enchanted creature is indestructible” would get +2/+2.

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PostSubject: Re: Important rules that we've missed in the past   Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:11 am

An Aura permanent doesn’t target anything; only the spell is targeted.

Modal spells and abilities may have different targeting requirements for each mode. An effect that allows a player to change the target of a modal spell or ability doesn’t allow that player to change its mode.

An object that looks for a “[spell or ability] with a single target” checks the number of times any objects, players, or zones became the target of that spell or ability when it was put on the stack, not the number of its targets that are currently legal. If the same object, player, or zone became a target more than once, each of those instances is counted separately.

The actions performed when paying a cost may be modified by effects. Even if they are, meaning the actions that are performed don’t match the actions that are called for, the cost has still been paid.

Example: A player controls Psychic Vortex, an enchantment with a cumulative upkeep cost of “Draw a card,” and Obstinate Familiar, a creature that says “If you would draw a card, you may skip that draw instead.” The player may decide to pay Psychic Vortex’s cumulative
upkeep cost and then draw no cards instead of drawing the appropriate amount. The cumulative upkeep cost has still been paid.

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